Topic: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

I'm just wondering what people are doing to replace the high fantasy race/class combos of elf, dwarf and halfling for historical scenarios like Better Than Any Man.

Are people even including historical counterparts?

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

I don't use the demi-humans because I feel they don't fit well in a my semi-historical setting.

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

They could be made to fit in an Alternate Earth type setting, ala Three Hearts and Three Lions (or any similar work). I suppose it all comes down to how you wish to re-skin them. Libertad has an excellent write-up on halflings that I've just finished reading. His entries on elves and dwarfs are also excellent, and should still work fine, but are firmly in the weird/otherworldly vein.

I might recommend (off the top of my head) reading The Mound for some inspiration regarding some more unobtrusive elves. Could be reworked to reflect the whole... faerie mound thing found in old folk stories, with decidedly weird overtones. Plus it would keep the elves out of the world at large, but still viable as a character race (albeit a rather degenerate representation of one).

Just keep in mind the social effects of having "old folke" out and about in the world. Things would be a little... different. Oh, maybe check out another Anderson story called The Queen of Air and Darkness. Might help you out, and it's not a long read.

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

Well I personally don't mind using humans only. I just wonder what should replace the elf, dwarf, halfling classes.

For instance, I could call a dwarf a miner or barbarian and have the same stats and rules. I read somewhere that a player on these boards was going to use the halfling and have them represented in game as human midgets. The midget "class" would utilize the halfling rules.

I want to replace the fantasy races with some Appropriate counterparts or classes that are human only. Any ideas?

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

To me, some of the core ideas behind demihumans (attribute bonuses, for example, and very good saving throws) make them non-human somehow; the four core "human" classes cover the bases so well that these demihumans are more add-ons than anything else.

I take them away in historical settings, and add them back on in fantasy gaming. A tad boring, perhaps, but it works wonders.

Blogging about OSR at Deep Delving

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

Well... if you're just looking for re-skins then I'd recommend altering the halfling into a forester or somesuch. Afterall, the class already has the whole woodsy stealthiness thing going for it (and the thought of every midget on Earth suddenly becoming a woods-wise midget is just... terrifying). You could switch their saving throws around (halflings get ridiculous saving throws) and obviously they would no longer suffer from the inability to utilize larger weapons. Boom... woodsman/ranger/forester.

Dwarfish folk are a little tougher, as they're far more specialized, and their extra detection abilty really just mirrors one of those possessed by the specialist class. With their +1 Constitution bonus and higher hit die, I think you could justify casting them as a, uh... I don't know, it's late.

I'll think up some stuff tomorrow and get back to you. Oh, and check out some of the blogs out there. Obviously someone has done up some custom classes/re-skinned the basic ones at some point. Gank the hell out of their ideas and resources, that's why they share 'em.

Last edited by PlanarRambler (2013-06-25 11:33:08)

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

bc99 wrote:

I'm just wondering what people are doing to replace the high fantasy race/class combos of elf, dwarf and halfling for historical scenarios like Better Than Any Man.

Are people even including historical counterparts?

I myself do something different (a classless system), but a short answer is: sorcerer, barbarian and scout, respectively. For the scout you can choose to either keep or remove the small size stuff (weapon restriction and Dex bonus)

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

Lord Inar wrote:

I myself do something different (a classless system), but a short answer is: sorcerer, barbarian and scout, respectively. For the scout you can choose to either keep or remove the small size stuff (weapon restriction and Dex bonus)

See, that's what I was thinking, too, but there was a definite lack of anything resembling the typical barbarian in Europe around this time. Oh, but there were the natives of the Canadian and American colonies! They could be classed under 'barbarian', I suppose. And they did bring some of these folk back as exhibitions and the like. Again, the class would require some re-working, but it's doable with very little effort.

Sorceror is still... ehhhh. I dunno, it's hard to picture a sword slinging spell weaver in any sort of modern or semi-modern historical context. Still falls in the land of Moorcock and high fantasy/swords and sorcery. Can't imagine a European historical equivalent from around the 1600's.

Edit: Brotherhood of the Wolf and the human zoos of Europe are examples of possible ways to introduce the barbarian class back into Europe. Granted the human zoos were something that came later on, but there are several well documented examples of natives from the colonial settlements being returned to Europe and placed on display in the palaces of kings and other members of the aristocracy. One fellow was even de-fleshed after he died, and his remains put on display in a museum. I think they only recently got around to interring the poor fellow.

Last edited by PlanarRambler (2013-06-25 20:28:38)

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

Yeah, elf is a bit of an outlier in that it is quite powerful compared to other races and actually adds nothing except the surprise/secret doors thing. Just chuck it! (although you could transfer the surprise/secret doors thing to the scout and get rid of bushcraft).

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

I am not a fan of the elf really. Too many upsides and no real downsides unless it starts raining holy water. They may get the boot. I like what the halfling and dwarf bring so may still include those.

Good comments so far thanks!

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

One thing I never noticed until recently is that the elf starts with NO spells except Read Magic, while a Magic user gets three, which balances it a wee bit.

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

Lord Inar wrote:

One thing I never noticed until recently is that the elf starts with NO spells except Read Magic, while a Magic user gets three, which balances it a wee bit.

Where does it say that?

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

"Beginning Spells"  under "Magic User" p 79 - Rules and Magic

"At the start of play, every Magic-User’s spellbook contains Read Magic plus three other randomly determined first level spells.
An Elf begins play with only Read Magic in the spellbook."

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

Lord Inar wrote:

"Beginning Spells"  under "Magic User" p 79 - Rules and Magic

"At the start of play, every Magic-User’s spellbook contains Read Magic plus three other randomly determined first level spells.
An Elf begins play with only Read Magic in the spellbook."

Mine actually doesn't say that. Maybe it was errataed

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

Interesting, I just checked and that line wasn't in the Grindhouse edition, so yeah, it's new.

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

I'd say just ditch the demi-humans altogether and don't even try to reskin/sanitize them. Just the saving throw progressions alone are enough to make those three classes stand out substantially when compared to the human classes (especially the halfling). Compare the saving throws of each class at level 10.

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

I was thinking about this topic the other day, when something reminded me of Michael Moorcock's The War Hound and the World's Pain.  Set against the backdrop of the 30-Years' War, this fantasy yarn describes a cynical mercenary captain's quest to recover the Holy Grail on behalf of Lucifer. 

The captain's journey takes him into the "Mittelmarch", a region that "only those destined for Hell can enter".  An ordinary traveler might never see the road's turning that leads others into this strange realm, instead finding himself on the other side with no sense that he missed anything.  The mysterious maps that show how to reach the marches depict entire towns, rivers, valleys and other features that simply don't exist in the world we know. 

Such a place could hold remnants of the Dwarves, the Halflings, and Elven folk.  Hidden from the perceptions of most mortals, most folk would consider them to be nothing more than a legend.  They might not even see their true forms in the lands we know, instead perceiving hirsute miners, nimble scouts, and slender foresters.

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

Once my copy of Bettet Than Any Man arrives I will hopefully get a campaign going, set Germany/Poland around the 30 Year War.

I plan to use the demihumans but make them sort exotic for the area. So the Dwarf will be from the far East (with a russian feel), the elf will be from the far South (with heavy Moor influence) and the Halflings will be a gypsy-style people, popping up here and there. That way the will be rare, but not supernatural and unheard of.

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

DKChannelBoredom wrote:

Once my copy of Bettet Than Any Man arrives I will hopefully get a campaign going, set Germany/Poland around the 30 Year War.

I plan to use the demihumans but make them sort exotic for the area. So the Dwarf will be from the far East (with a russian feel), the elf will be from the far South (with heavy Moor influence) and the Halflings will be a gypsy-style people, popping up here and there. That way the will be rare, but not supernatural and unheard of.

I plan to do something similar - I figure if magic exists (but the average person is suspicious of it) then demi-humans could have a similar treatment.  I made it clear to my players that if they choose one, they may never meet another, and they will be treated similar to how Europeans first treated "exotic" people (ranging from fascination to racism).

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

I'd reskin as Occultist (Elf,) Mercenary (Dwarf,) and Survivalist... maybe Hermit? (Halfling.) Seems historical enough to me, but YMMV tongue

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

I just leave them out.

I'll use them as is if I happen to need them in an adventure or some such singular case.

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

I leave 'em in and just go; you make sense of them as you go along, and the player who wanted one can contribute. Given the weirdness of LotFP in general the world will soon be so screwed up that a dwarf or elf would feel familiar in comparison.

Blogging about OSR at Deep Delving

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

First, sorry for necroposting. Then to the point. I like all those demi-human classes. There's really nothing to customise within your class, so having more classes gives more variety.

I like the idea of dwarfs being mercenaries. In a world where monster-infested treasure dungeons exist it is logical to have a group of specialised adventurers.

Don't hobbits add an additional smallness point to theirAC? Take that away with the restriction on big weapons, and you got a ranger/wildman. Good saving throws would represent their sharp instincts and extreme resilience.

Elfs could be replaced by a noble class. Elf starts more powerful and advances slowly, which sounds very much like an arrogant but well-educated noble to me. With some tweaking, lawful nobles using cleric spells could be included as well.

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

I tried to run Better Than Any Man but half the players had scheduling problems so it fell through after the first session. I'll try to resume the game in a few months. Obviously, the setting is Earth in 1631 and thus the demi-humans would not make sense. That's why I decided to use the "alternate history" concept for my campaigns. There is an alternate version of Earth ( actually quite a few of them but only one that is of concern immediately) and the elves, dwarfs and halflings are native to that cosmos. There are also humans native to that other world. There are "thin places" where portals sometimes appear that connect the two worlds and offer transit. That's how the demi-humans get to the world where the Swedes are fighting the Holy Roman Empire. All of my LotFP games will use this concept.

Re: What replaces dwarf, elf, halfling for historically based gaming?

While not strictly an answer to the question, my personal preference about demi-humans on an Earth-like world is to simply make them fae - weird beings rather unusual to be seen anywhere near human settlements. This means that simply being an elf (or a halfling) can end with being burned at the stake by a rather inflamed mob of villagers.

Some specifics...

Elf: They are obviously faerie. The Sidhe / Tuatha de Danann archetype. Mound folk. Fair ones. I personally dislike "all-knowing illuminati" elves. I'd stick with faerie folklore, affinity with the seasons and phases of the moon, sexuality and sadism, walking around naked, messing with humans, you got it. Give them magical cantrips related to the season (like making flowers bloom in the spring, a small amount of water freeze in the winter, etc.)

Halfling: While I understand the role Tolkien invented them for, I never thought it meshed well with anything beside, well, Tolkien. But hey. If elves are "mound folk", then halflings are doubly so. If elves are faerie nobles, they are faerie commoners. The wee people. Like stealing stuff from humans, playing pranks, and having lots of gold and food around. Super material, and quite petty. Tend to prefer green clothes and fancy hats.
I'd also replace Bushcraft with Sleight of Hand as their Skill. (This goes for Tolkien halflings and Hickman kenders too. Bilbo was quite a natural burglar, but a real crappy woodsman.)

Dwarf: A lot less Tolkien and a lot more Wagner. Schwarzalben. Nibelungen. Not so much wide and burly as steel cable thin and ten feet of solid stone strong, crooked, shriveled, sooty and ugly. Creeping and tunneling below the skin of the Earth, mining and forging in the neverending dark. Proud and vain beyond description, but with reason. As good craftsmen as they are warriors - even the gods have to fear from them, in both aspects.

Also, faerie folk tend to have a rather bad relation to human religion. I'd make all demi-humans Chaotic, and give them all weaknesses against holy water, the sound of churchbells, and similar stuff.

Last edited by Lepus (2015-01-24 05:35:43)