51

(8 replies, posted in Shot & Sorcery)

OK, so the system's dead-simple. There is no advancement. What's the appeal? What's the angle? Why should anyone give a crap?

The meat and interest of the game mechanically will be in the character creation.

It's a lifepath system.

You start with a 16 year old, randomly determine the character's starting situation, and get rolling.

I think of it as somewhere in the middle of Burning Wheel, Warhammer 1e, and Traveller, but involved to the point of being its own 10-15min solo mini-game. Deep enough to be able to make 100 characters and have none of them come up the same or even similar.

Each bit along the path takes d6 years, gives a random selection of skills relevant to the "profession" rolled, and then gives a random exit path.

You can stop at any time and say "OK, this is my character at the start of play." At some point you need to because characters can die (you do NOT want to go to Jamestown) or get so old they start taking penalties (defeating the only point of continuing on).

The system will both highlight real-world locations and events while at the same time making sure people know that it's not at all necessary to be a history freak to get into the game or setting... because each step is a random amount of time and you don't know ahead of time how old the character will be, things can pop up out of order. "Oh, I was a founding Plymouth settler (1620), then I went to become involved in the Gunpowder Plot (1605), then I helped repel the Spanish Armada (1588)! And I start play at 30 years old!"

So character creation will tell the story of a life but will also need some interpretation to completely come out straight.

Paths will not just be military or other "adventuring" kind of things... you might be a farmer or innkeeper or what have you - but even so if it's in one place it will have different benefits, risks, and exit paths than other places. It's going to be all over the place... and not necessarily pleasant places. If your character was a back alley criminal at some point, chances are that character will have done some truly awful things. Your character might have been a slaver. Or a slave.

(the character creation for the core game will keep a European focus or else the whole thing goes completely out of control as far as options and page count... different areas might have lifepaths done as separate things so you can start in the Ottoman Empire, as a native in the Americas, in Japan, or what have you, but that's a secondary concern because it can't be done all at once and one should start off where one is most comfortable and familiar)

One benefit/drawback of this approach is that you do need something for all these "non-adventuring" paths to be good at. They shouldn't be wasted years. "Oh shit, I'm a farmer for three years. Worthless!" That's bad. And when politics, the clergy, business, and academics are possible paths in the system, they all need some sort of benefit. So that path that brings a player to potentially be a Galileo type genius or a Shakespeare-level playwright? That needs skills to reflect the knowledge that brings and that needs rules descriptions for things those skills do in play.

So that inflates the skill list. Which doesn't trip the traditional problems of a large skill list in a game, because the players are taking them as they come and not spending time choosing them, and people who don't have those skills can still attempt to do the things the skills aid. And the character sheet, which starts as a blank, only has those skills added to it which come up in the lifepaths.

The end result is supposed to be a motley crew of misfits that, at the time play begins, band together to explore, experience, and perhaps even fight the unknown and dreadful forces pushing in at the edges of reality.

52

(35 replies, posted in Shot & Sorcery)

Andrew S wrote:

I like it, especially the lack of advancement which I suspect will lead to on-again, off-again campaigns where groups play for a few weeks, break for something else and return later.

I suspect extended campaign play of a single game is the exception rather than the rule in the RPG world.

53

(3 replies, posted in LotFP Webstore Forum)

Vito wrote:

I should have ordered priority like I did with Vornheim (I received that within a week).

I was about to ask about shipping times myself, but I understand you don't ship a lot of stuff out to my neck of the woods...

Two weeks to a month then?

If you're not in Europe, yeah.

54

(35 replies, posted in Shot & Sorcery)

Vito wrote:

Can you elaborate on wound charts?
Are they associated with different die sizes? I mean, is there a d6 wound chart, d8 wound chart, d10 wound chart, etc?
If so, what about two-die or three-die wound charts for the really tough stuff?

o                   =18
ooooo           = 13-17
oooooooooo = 3-12

The system is as of right now just d6s. So with the tiger example above it would just be damned hard to kill.

Getting a 12+ on your attack roll means the target has to make a Toughness roll or die, regardless of wound status... at least with certain weapons (that part of it is not so fleshed out yet). You can one-shot an elephant with the right gun, probably not so easy with a sword.

The idea is if you're confronted by a few of the Cardinal's men and they've got their guns ready, surrendering is probably a smart option no matter how badass you are.

55

(35 replies, posted in Shot & Sorcery)

Vito wrote:

Dude!

Traveller is really fun. I ran a one-shot for some friends in Seoul recently and I'm planning on starting a campaign as soon as I change schools this March.

You should play it. It's cool.

I don't doubt that it's cool, and the overall concept is awesome, but some of the stuff looks so weird on paper. I wonder if later editions cleaned it up (like how Moldvay or Mentzer took the ideas of OD&D and cleaned them up)?

(I'd also have to have someone running it, because I don't have this sort of sci-fi in my bones to present it)

56

(35 replies, posted in Shot & Sorcery)

golan2072 wrote:

Sounds like a great system - a bit similar to Traveller's base mechanic (8+ on 2d6+skills).

A lot of early ideas were based on what I knew of Traveller, but I've never actually played it. I did buy about a half dozen PDFs of the original edition a couple weeks back just to compare what I was doing and what actual Traveller was. Some bits will remind, but nothing is exactly the same, and then other bits of the game are pulled from entirely different influences.

57

(35 replies, posted in Shot & Sorcery)

The system is designed to be very, very simple. Mechanics should be very out-of-the-way and non-intrusive upon game play, but they have to have enough weight to influence, and perhaps alter, the course of the game when employed.

2d6, get a 9 or higher.

That's a 27.78% chance of success. Not impossible by any means, but not very good.

There are no basic stats, no default skills. Anyone can do anything. Roll 2d6, get a 9 or higher. (or if it's a really ridiculous thing that's being attempted, get a 12).

In character creation you gain skills that, in appropriate situations, modify your 2d6 roll.

A high "whiff" factor? Yeah, if you're an average untrained schlub. People really aren't good at things they haven't trained to do.

(what things characters are expected to be good at will be discussed more in character creation)

I imagine the majority of the rulebook being used to explain what happens when certain situations arise and what the die rolls mean in those situations.

The health/damage system will not be a hit point system, but rather a wound level system that, as it turns out, is pretty close to The Shadow of Yesterday's system, which is pretty funny because I haven't looked at that game in 7 years or so and I damn sure never understood the whole Bringing Down the Pain thing when I owned the book (first edition). One of my players, after hearing about the system, pointed out the similarities.

Basically you've got three levels of wounds, build like a pyramid:

o     = 6
oo   = 4-5
ooo = 1-3

When damage is rolled in combat, the result doesn't tell you how much damage you take, but which at which level the damage is taken.

Taking damage at any particular level incurs penalties, and when a level is full, a Toughness roll is required or the character is KOd. If the top level is full, the Toughness roll is against death. If more damage is taken on an already full level, the you start filling in the next level up.

The different levels would heal at different rates.

Larger animals and creatures would add to the second and third tiers but never the top. A 10' tiger would have a wound chart like this:

o         = 10
oooo   = 6-9
ooooo = 1-5

Very hard to kill.

Oh yeah, "Toughness roll." One thing about the system, with no firm attribute or skill lists, is that you can call for any roll you want. If you suddenly to insert something into an adventure that calls for a "Yankee Doodle Dandy!" roll, you can. "What, nobody's got the Yankee Doodle Dandy skill? OK, 2d6, get a 9 or more." If they did have the skill, that modifies the roll.

Of course a default skill list will shake out of the character creation process, but as we'll see, if that works right it will be the easiest thing in the world to introduce new skills and options in character creation.

(things like Toughness or Strength or what have you that are normally attributes in RPGs behave more like skills in this one, sort of like how Warhammer 1e gives such things as skills)

I'm going back and forth on whether a couple of skills will be something that shifts around during play, but other than that... no advancement mechanic. Your character, at creation, is your character. You can improve the character's station, wealth, circumstances, and health, but the skills and abilities of the character don't advance or improve after character creation.

58

(8 replies, posted in Shot & Sorcery)

Ngometamer wrote:

I'm curious if costs will determine the actual size of each book? I'm kind of partial to the old Traveller book size (or Arduin Grimoire, which were about the same, if I remember correctly). Something where all the books could fit inside a slipcase of about the same size as a trade hardback would be very cool.

I like working with smaller book sizes (for ease of use) so you should be happy there.

Ngometamer wrote:

I'm also very curious as to why character generation needs to be a separate book? Is this to increase the "portability" of the chargen information across genres (i.e., one chargen book for fantasy, sci-fi, weird western, and whatever other setting books/supplements are created)? Guess I'll just have to wait for the coming post . . .

The portability of character generation is one consideration, but there's also the fact that character creation material might be 2-3x the size of the rules. So much to ignore if the rules need to be referenced in play.

Of course, if everything goes as planned maybe that's not a consideration because there won't be all that much rules look-ups I hope.

59

(8 replies, posted in Shot & Sorcery)

One thing I want to do with S&S is have the presentation of the game be part of the design of the thing. How information is presented is just about as important as the information itself... something that is only obvious when the presentation is really great or really shitty.

So if something doesn't present well, it doesn't become part of the game. (establishing design parameters is also part of the project... no "oh that's cool, it's in!" It's got to fit...!)

So... top-level presentation questions...

Books. Has to be books. I don't use PDFs or ebooks myself, so it will be designed as a physical book. (although highly functional PDFs/ebooks will be on the menu if this whole thing gets that far)

I hate one-book games if the information in the book is not meant to be a cohesive 'thing.'

In wish-world, the game would be split up into a bunch of books:

Rules
Character Creation (a coming post explains why this would ideally be its own book)
Magic
Monsters
GM Book
Setting Book
Intro Adventure

(the Tutorial stuff would be online, hopefully interactive)

This split would be done to make sure that when you're referencing a book, you're referencing a book that's specifically about the thing you're referencing. An "all-in-one" GM book, with setting and magic and monsters, means you're handling a book much larger than you need to be for what you're looking up. Ditto for a combined Rules/Character Creation book, when all that character creation stuff (which will probably take up more space than the rules) will just be an obstacle during actual play.

Plus the setting book, magic book, monster book, and perhaps even the character creation book would be modular, and if the game were to be a success some of these could be a series of books. More magic, more monsters, and I think it would be easier to use a number of volumes if the initial one was its own book rather than a section in the GM guide.

(you notice I put the magic stuff as belonging to the GM?)

If (if I'm going to dream, dream big, right?) the thing proves popular, different games in different genres could be released. If the core rules are their own separate book, then I'd just need to do a new character creation book for a sci-fi game instead of redoing the rules AND character creation info.

(or there might need to be so many new rules that a new supplement is necessary anyway and so having the rules separate would be pointless anyway... this is all a work-in-conceptphase, not a work-almost-ready-to-publish, after all).

The problem of course being that 2 books cost a hell of a lot more to produce than 1 book with the combined page count. Ease of use and "my dream presentation" are going to run into practical matters like this. (this is why the Deluxe Edition and the Grindhouse Edition were split up differently)

And while it would be nice to do all these books in hardcover, that's probably going to run into the cost thing as well. hmph.

But it will be a multi-book project, with the books not being so big. They would be combined in a slipcase, not a box, for tax reasons (lesson learned from Cubicle 7's The One Ring). The slipcase will have artwork that produces sort of a 3-D effect (whichever side of the slipcase you look at will show the picture from a different angle...).

60

(7 replies, posted in Shot & Sorcery)

Shot & Sorcery is a working title for a new game system I'm designing.

Why a new system? Well, that's what RPG publishers and writers do, isn't it? Play around at such things?

Anyway, the idea is to start from scratch. Not use use and adapt the assumptions of a previous game, but to build something from the ground up that stands on its own. Sure, bits may echo other games (pure originality for the sake of it is not a great thing), but those echoes will be chosen on their own merits and not because that's the default design milieu I'm in.

Will this amount to anything? Who knows. I've started and then dropped many ideas over the years (even in the past couple!) so this forum may someday disappear if I decide it's not going anywhere, but it's been sticking with me longer than previous itches and setting this forum up seems to be a way to move forward better than just compiling loose sheets of paper and index cards with ideas.

The Genre: Horror

The Pitch: Earth, between 1589 - 1640

Isn't that close to what you're already doing with LotFP Weird Fantasy?: Similar, yes. But some things I'd been playing around with design-wise would have seriously destroyed some core rules principles found in OSR games and would have left it incompatible with otherwise similar systems. Also, I find that a more strict historical focus isn't necessarily the best fit for those sorts of games. Instead of trying to fit square pegs into round holes, or changing things that people already like about the system (therefore repeating events that led to the whole OSR scene in the first place), I thought maybe sectioning off some of these influences into a different yard would benefit both impulses.

So why not just create a setting or campaign book for Game X: Doesn't make sense to start a project with the goal of escaping a particular design philosophy just to attach the thing to another pre-made design philosophy, does it? If the thing ever seems doomed to never stand on its own, I'll stop messing with it.

This isn't going to mess with releases for LotFP Weird Fantasy and OSR compatible stuff, is it?: Not for a long time. Three reasons you can be sure of that: 1- There's a lot of stuff in the pipeline that was conceived of and played completely within the mindset of "OSR" style games. Those will move forward as originally planned. A couple which were planned will be held back but LotFP's release schedule is sparse enough (half dozen or less releases a year) that you'll never notice. 2- I'm working with a number of other authors to release their work (a la Carcosa and Vornheim and Isle) and they aren't involved in this new project at all, so of course those releases will be OSR-related. 3- This is a new game starting from scratch. All the concepts aren't even worked out, let alone any playing or real writing or production work done. We're looking at at least two years before anything sees print, and that's if the project is deemed viable and keeps my interest the whole way. In the meantime I need to actually game, and this publishing thing is how I pay my rent (or try to, depending on the month) so just dropping everything in favor of this project... not happening.

Why a Forum for This?: Seems a better way to get the ideas out there in an organized fashion. Someone popping along after the 10th post won't easily pick up on the 1st or 2nd post on a blog or Google+... but it works just fine on a forum.

The Shot & Sorcery subforum is specifically about designing a new game. Ideas will be thrown out into public by me, and perhaps commented on by you, on what just may someday be a commercial release.

CYA statement: By posting in this forum, you are giving permission for me to use your ideas in the game, possibly without credit and definitely without compensation. At the time of this writing, this forum is a "sketchbook" and idea thrower-arounder, not a hardcore product design exercise.

As I write this, it's a long way off but it is possible I'll be asking for compensated work in relation to the project. If so, this will be clearly marked and submissions would go directly to me, not to the forum.

Ed Dove wrote:

some Imprisoning rituals can't ever be performed with a completely clean conscience.

... I can't complain about the discussion as a whole because, hey, I published Carcosa. But this thread is soooo weeeeiirrdd.

And the idea that a sorcerer on Carcosa would ever be plagued by a troubled conscience just sounds so bizarre.

"They deserve it because I wanted to do it and they couldn't stop me" with no more reflection or justification sounds about right. Shit, this is Carcosa, there are probably tons of Lawful types doing the same sorts of thing just for the hell of it, not because it would ever accomplish anything else.

And while the idea of playing out a ritual in detail does sound creepy to me ("I perform the ritual" would be good enough detail for me, thankyouverymuch), cheating the system by picking someone's nose and trying to pass that off as a rape... well... ritual failed, dude, and good luck from there because you're going to need it.

See the new forum header image up there?

(if not, try logging out and logging back in, that helps)

What is that thing on the table? Where did these three get it?

Ah, those three:

  • Alice the Cleric on the left, killer of elves and doomed to die by Iri-Khan's hand

  • The Flame Princess in the middle - she's a Specialist, by the way - adventurer doomed to be melted by slime

  • On the right is the Magic-User that appears on page 66 of the Rules & Magic book in the Grindhouse Edition, also the cover of the Magic book in the Deluxe Edition. How she dies is not yet known but I bet it will be suitably entertaining.

Give your explanations for the thing on the table, where they got it, and any associated rules/powers/effects for it, if any, in this thread. Assume that whatever you post here is free game for others to use however they like.

Deadline is 11:59pm Helsinki time December 31.

My favorite will get a 10€ coupon code for the LotFP store, the consensus favorite (we'll do voting in another thread, don't clutter this one with "KEWL!!!!" posts please) will get a 5€ coupon.

As long as you credit (and link!) the source somewhere in the document, it's fine if you distribute it.

And apparently Macs are the devil. tongue

I've alerted the tech guy that the truncation issues are continuing on the board.

The books are printed and delivered and already on the Finnish store shelves at least, so not much to be done there.

Typos are the bane of everything, because there are no excuses for them, they seem so obvious when they are found so what the hell is wrong with everyone that looked for such things... yet they are inevitable and nobody, not big publisher, not small publisher, seems to be free of them. Sometimes I'm surprised everyone actually spells the titles of the books right on the cover, because when you get to those final stages you're suddenly so panicked that you've missed something glaringly obvious that the eyes are glazed over and it could say ACRCOSA on the cover and you won't see it. tongue

islan wrote:

...And I notice that the treasure values are listed in gp.  Should I change them all to sp?

Yes. The adventure was published before the Grindhouse Edition's change to the silver standard.

67

(2 replies, posted in LotFP Webstore Forum)

On average about two weeks, but sometimes, unfortunately, as long as a month.

It really is designed to be plopped down in pretty much any campaign, so details of the civilization there are rather sparse to prevent as much conflict with your campaign as possible.

I'd plop it down in an ocean or a sea somewhere, and give some plot hooks leading there that have nothing to do with anything described in the book. Put in your own adventure, plop another module on the island.

Then when the players arrive there's all this stuff! for them to see and do in addition to what there are there for.

timmyd wrote:

Still not clear on this...

Does the Wisdom bonus affect non-spell-related saving throws, i.e. Paralyze, Poison, Dragon Breath, Death?

As long as the save is not triggered by a spell or magical effect, yes.

70

(5 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

The Grindhouse Edition adds a couple of examples of magic items and a monster, plus a new intro adventure A Stranger Storm.

71

(5 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

savagejeff wrote:

Another stupid question.  What is the difference between the Deluxe and Grindhouse editions?

Grindhouse is the 2nd edition of the game (I sold out of Deluxe edition boxes pretty quick).

Rules differences: http://lotfp.blogspot.com/2011/03/major … eluxe.html

Grindhouse Edition only has three books in it: Tutorial, Rules and Magic, Referee. The Grindhouse Edition has a new layout and tons of new art, no graph paper or pencil, the dice are a different color, and it does not come with the two adventures (although there is a new intro adventure as part of the Referee book).

72

(5 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

Character sheet for the Deluxe Edition: http://www.lotfp.com/RPG/uploads/pdf/Ch … heeta4.pdf

No weapon and armor limitations for Clerics and MUs.

Someone posted an item for LotFP here:

http://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/ … roths-axe/

74

(5 replies, posted in LotFP Gaming Forum)

The books were printed by one of the top printing houses in Finland.

My personal play copy is also the same one I put out on display at conventions for people to look through... so over the past 7 months hundreds of people have had their paws on the books in addition to my using them for prep and play, and they are holding up just fine.

Is it really a problem that PCs become too tough into the mid-levels that they need to be depowered?