Re: So, what house rules do you use ?

I'm considering the following:

Dwarves make a follow up attack after rolling a 20 and a counterattack if their opponent rolls a 1.

Magic-users can memorize one more spell per day than they have slots for. They are still limited by their slots when it comes to casting, the 'extra' gives them more choice only. (Thanks to Lord Inar in the MU/Elf thread for this one).

Shields can be sacrificed, reducing the damage of a blow to its minimum value. A sacrificed shield will be broken and unusable thereafter.

Armour may be sacrificed in the same way as a shield, reducing its base AC by 2. This can be done once only before repairs are required (Repairs cost half the armour’s initial value and take a number of days equal to its base AC -10. A skilled armourer must be on hand to repair chainmail and plate. Leather can be repaired by a leatherworker).

Two Weapon fighting: One weapon must be small or lighter. +1 AC when wielding both. On a successful hit roll both damage dice and pick the higher.

Re: So, what house rules do you use ?

Andrew S wrote:

Magic-users can memorize one more spell per day than they have slots for. They are still limited by their slots when it comes to casting, the 'extra' gives them more choice only. (Thanks to Lord Inar in the MU/Elf thread for this one).

Glad you like it!

Re: So, what house rules do you use ?

Lord Inar wrote:

Glad you like it!

It's a fine rule. smile

I've also come up with a clutch of house rules for a more D&D-like game. My main campaign will mostlly use Lotfp RAW; the following will be used for 'heroic' games compatible with the piles of BD&D/OSR stuff I own:


THE BASICS

Reroll your ability scores if total bonuses are 0 or lower.

Maximum hit points at 1st level. Roll normally thereafter.

Shields shall be splintered, helms cloven.

Clerics, Dwarves, Elves, Halflings and Specialists gain +1 AB at levels 2, 4, 6 and 8. Magic users gain +1 at 3, 6 and 9.

All PCs may use the combat manoeuvres presented.


CLASSES

Fighters gain +1 to damage at levels 1, 3, 6, 9 and 12. May make 2 attacks per round at -4 AB and -4 AC.

Dwarves gain damage bonuses in the same way as fighters. They may also ‘chop till you drop.’

MUs may memorise one additional spell per day of any level they can cast.

Last edited by Andrew S (2011-08-23 07:37:57)

Re: So, what house rules do you use ?

Andrew S wrote:

Reroll your ability scores if total bonuses are 0 or lower.

Another option is to allow them to change one ability to a 14, instead of rerolling everything and risking another dud character (which I get usually about a third of the time). Of course if raising an attribute to 14 doesn't get you over 0, then yeah, reroll that poor soul!

I'll admit I stole this idea, modified slightly, straight from Gary Gygax.

- Marc

Re: So, what house rules do you use ?

Cool. smile

Another method for 'god mode':

You have 2 points in ability bonuses to spend. Once assigned you determine the exact score randomly within the range the bonus occupies.


e.g.

0 = d4 + 8

+1 = d3 + 12

+2 = d2 + 15


Optional rule ('min-maxer paradise'): Take -2 in one ability and gain another point to spend.

Re: So, what house rules do you use ?

Okay, back to the regular game. These are the house rules I'll be using when refereeing this week or next:

Shields shall be splintered, helms cloven.

Dwarves gain a +1 Strength modifier in addition to their constitution bonus.

Magic-users gain a +1 Intelligence bonus.

Re: So, what house rules do you use ?

I am considering the following house rules:
- Players roll two rows of ability scores, choose one row, and may switch two scores within.
- Clerics, Specialists, Elves and Halflings get an attack bonus at 1st, 4th, 8th and 12th level, MUs at 1st, 6th and 12th level, and Dwarves at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th level. Fighters are unchanged.
- MUs can prepare one more spell of each spell level, but can still cast the usual number of spells [credit goes to Lord Inar, right?].
- Shields can be sacrificed to reduce damage to 1 (maybe 2 or 3 for really big monsters).
- XP is awarded for killing/capturing/incapacitating monsters and classed NPCs (they may receive a nominal XP for killing bandits, soldiers and similar opponents), for money and treasure looted from dungeons and remote wilderness areas, and for accomplishing their goals (they may set a couple of goals for their characters, I [secretly?] and give all of them an XP value.

Re: So, what house rules do you use ?

I can't help but tinker, and to be honest while I'm content to play in a lotfp game with the RAW, as a DM I'm mostly mining Lotfp for streamlining my home brew game which is a jumble of 1e and basic.

That said, there are a few things which come to mind.

I really appreciate the fact that Lotfp keeps fighters in the forefront of combat. I've done extensive looks at the basic versions (mostly B/X & BECMI) and 1e in terms of abilities such as attack bonus and saves by XP rather than level. It's clear that fighters lose out in BECMI as an attack bonus by XP reveals that the cleric is almost as good as the fighter at any given XP. I'm more fond of the results in 1e, where the fighter pulls away from the cleric, and the cleric and thief remain quite close in attack bonus and hit points to each other.

Trying to dupe that to an extent I ran some possible changes using Lotfp xp tables (which I like better than any others as they keep the ratio of xp needed at any given level exactly the same as they are at 2nd level - a big improvement over the classic games)! In doing so, I also changed base AC to 11 rather than 12, and started 1st level characters out at -1 AB for the MU, 0 for the cleric and specialist, and +1 for the fighter. With the exception of the MU, this makes the base % chance to hit exactly the same as it is in LOTFP, and is less of a headache for me as I'm so used to thinking of base AC as 9-(11)  in basic after playing it since 1981.

Keeping with the idea that the fighter improves in attack bonus 1 per level, for the sake of the 21 level comparison i allowed the fighter to extend all the way to +17 at 16th level (essentially where he would be in 1e if one bumped up his 1st level attack bonus). The trick the became to allow clerics and specialists to increase somewhat in attack bonus and stay somewhat similar, while at the same time never allowing the specialist to have a better AB than the cleric (presuming the cleric to be a holy warrior and the specialist to be a sneaky bastard). This required looking at XP values rather than straight level. In a somewhat generous allowance for increases to AB for those two (while keeping them well behind the fighter), I ran a model on XL with graphs. I allowed the cleric to increase attack bonus at levels 2, 4, and every even level up to +10 at level 20. In order to keep the specialist close but behind, he ended up increasing at levels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 16, 18 & 20 for a final attack bonus of +9. Keeping the MU gimpy he starts at -1 and increases in AB at levels 4, 8, 12, 16 & 20 for a final AB of +4.

I'll see if the graph uploads here..ah it did, keep in mind i labeled specialist as Thief so Tab would be the attack bonus of the specialist. These are all weighted by XP, not level, so assuming a party survives from day one (Lol) this is where they would differ in attack bonus. Also keep in mind that the various X axis data points are the XP where any class hits a level where they have an increase in AB. As I said, these were somewhat generous advancements for the cleric and specialist - if one desires a slower increase, one could always have the jumps occur at different levels, just keeping in mind that you have to ensure the specialist never jumps ahead of the holy warrior.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v457/ivanmike/lofpabchange1.png

Last edited by IvanMike (2011-10-19 20:02:28)

Re: So, what house rules do you use ?

The next thing I'm looking at is the skill system. While I really appreciate the d6 method, I was tinkering with a d12 method to make it more granular and to allow the specialist to improve somewhat in many skills rather than just two. This works rather well, but my final desire was to allow modifications to the various skills based upon the ability score modifiers (+/- 1 to 3) of the characters.

Looking at that, adjustments by d6 pips are 16.67% each, while d12 pips are 8.34%. This of course makes anyone with a score of 4 or less have a 0% chance to succeed in any given skill attempt, while those with 16 or higher end up being supermen. As much as I eschew d20 type mechanics for skills (I have no desire to model the 3.x system), I like the idea of using a single die and not get bogged down in the minutia of % skills - although I like them, in practice runs of my homebrew game I found calculating these to slow the game down far too much.

That said, I gave in and decided to look at converting the skill system to a d20 "roll low" method. While it's fine and dandy to allow non-specialist characters to keep the 1 in 6 (16.67% chance), those with ability scores outside the 9-12 "dead zone" should have their modifiers come into play IMO. As such, one has the choice of giving a flat 3 in 20 (15%) or 4 in 20 (20%) chance, which is modified by the relevant ability score modifier.

It is interesting that the Lotfp method of giving specialists 2 d6 pips to assign (an overall 33.34% increase in skills per level) is rather close to the 30 % points given to a thief each level in the 2e system. Assuming that an increase in sneak attack/backstab multiplier is worth 16.67 % "points", after 4 levels the "extra" 3.34% per level = 13.36%, which is pretty close. (I wonder if Jim ran these numbers in his design - I would think so).

Converting to a d20 pip method, it's not too much of a stretch to have the cost of a sneak attack/backstab multiplier = 3 or 4 d20 pips for a "cost" of 15-20%. I've been thinking of allowing specialist in this possible d20 pip method to sink pips into the sneak attack category which would remain dormant until they allotted 3 or 4 over time.

Considering all that, one could allow 7-8 d20 skill pips per level for a total of 35-40% "points" to be spent per level by the specialist (the difference simply being how many skills you wish the specialist to increase in).

On that note, out of the 10 named skills (not including the 2 "blank" skills allowed for DM tweaking), the one that sticks out as odd to me is the open doors one. I've decided to keep that one a d6 roll and not allowing specialists to increase in that, and at the same time converting it to the more familiar "basic" method of a base 2 in 6 chance modified by the STR modifier. those with a -2 from a STR of 4-5 have only a 1 in 12 chance of opening a stuck door, while those with a STR of 3 either have a 1 in 20 chance, or must roll a 1 on two d12s, or perhaps a 1 on a d12 and then on a d6. (it should be a miracle if they can open it)!

However, actual "breaking an entering" in terms of using various tools to break into a tomb could simply be washed into the "tinkering" skill, which already includes open locks, remove traps, & set traps.

In terms of what ability score would modify what skill, I think the obvious would be DEX for sleight of hand, & stealth &  STR for climbing. Tinker is a bit harder, and I could see that the average of INT and DEX might affect that (perhaps rounding up). Likewise, for search, one could make equal cases for INT and WIS. My gut level "make the game cool" feeling is to allow the higher modifier to prevail, but those with high INT would actually notice the actual issue, whereas those with high WIS would simply be told "you have a feeling that something isn't right". Bushcraft and Architecture would seem to be mostly INT based, but I could see arguments otherwise.

In keeping with the vibe of the D&D thief, I've been looking at having the 6 arguably "thief skills" being sleight of hand, tinker, search, stealth, climb and sneak attack. Non specialists would start out with 3 of 20 in all with none in sneak attack, whereas specialists would be given 16 d20 pips (80%) to assign (given that S/A costs 4 pips), which is of course a bit more generous than the 66.67% that 4 d6 pips @ 1st level allows, but I don't think it's an insane difference. Assuming the specialist spreads them around, they could end up with x2 sneak attack, and allows them to place 3 pips in two of the remaining 5 thief type skills, and 2 pips in three others. This would bring them to 25-30% success rates in these categories, and that's before considering any bonuses or penalties they might get from ability score modifiers.

Of course, one could make a good case for making baseline 4 pips (20% in all categories), but one is free to tweak. After all that the specialist could have 8 d20 pips per level and assign them at will. I don't think it's too crazy to allow the other classes one or two d20 pips per level to increase somewhat in some areas, - once again, not wanting to mimic d20 type games, but a 5% increase somewhere isn't the end of the world.

Finally, i think I shall leave the languages where it is as a d6 method, and not allow the specialist to improve in it. however, one of the two "free" skill categories would be well served to become a read magic/use magic item category (IMO) to kind of give that flavor that these sneaky bastards might become somewhat skilled in the dangerous practice of trying to use odd artifacts that they found (generally with disastrous results for sure)!

Re: So, what house rules do you use ?

Somewhat less involved is encumbrance. Overall I think that the Lotfp system of encumbrance is hands down the best and most useable I've ever seen - bravo! That said, in keeping with my desire to use ability score modifiers, and considering that 1e allowed STR to affect encumbrance & move rate, I'm using the following modifiers. Each STR modifier (positive or negative) adds or subtracts one item per encumbrance "slot" that counts towards the encumbrance of the character, so a person with a 16 STR could carry 7 items per slot, while one with a STR of 5 could only carry 3. Armor would be exempt from this and still cost 1 for chain and 2 for plate.

That said, I like the idea of having intermediate armor types in between the +2 leather, +4 chain, & +6 plate. Nominally I'm calling these +3 "scale" and +5 "banded" (for lack of better terms - call them what you will). As such, I'm going to have these intermediate armor types cost 3 items in the next available encumbrance slot.

Magic wise, I've always liked the idea of extra spells for Int since I started playing 1e, and I've always allowed clerics to have extra spells for WIS. However, it seems that to keep it simple one could allow one additional 1st level spell for each INT modifier (+1-3), and that as the character gains levels and more spell levels, one could use the +2 modifier for an additional 2nd level spell, or the rare 18 INT +2 modifier for one extra 3rd level spell if desired. As lethal as this game is, I don't see that as game breaking.

The last thing magic wise I'd do (as our Lotfp DM Joe the Attorney has done) is to add the uber old school mechanic where memorized spells allow the MU to perform minor cantrip like effects relevant to the memorized spell as long as it still has not been cast. Allowing a wizard with some form of fire spell to produce flame from his fingers to light candles and the like is a lot of fun and adds some pizazz to the game.

CON wise, I'm considering using the CON modifier to affect the amount of travel or strenuous activity a character can do in a day, so their rates of travel might be affected.

After all that, I prefer not to rely overmuch on ability scores as mechanical modifiers, and as a DM I keep a list of the ability scores of my characters. When they state actions that I judge to be way outside the ability of their stupid or milquetoast character, I call foul or make them roll a die to see if they can actually pull this (for them) herculean task off.

Re: So, what house rules do you use ?

well traffic is low, so i sound verbose (heh, maybe more than sound - I had fun deconstructing the game during down time this week)

As far as saves go, like in all my games since dragon #80 came out in 83 or so, I parse out the improvements in saves rather than having big jumps every 3 4 or 5 levels. so if a guy goes from a save of 14 @ 1st level to a save of 12 @ 5th, I have the saves run 1st-14, 2nd-14, 3rd-13, 4th 13, 5th-12...etc.

I've always liked the -10 = dead for real rule, with the make a system shock roll if knocked to -4 or worse. There's no need for a system shock stat, as CON gives you nice 5% increments. So one thing I'm toying with is if you get knocked to -4 roll your CON or less on a d20 or you're dead for good. If -5 you have to add +1 to your roll, -6 +2, etc. Likewise, if you're only knocked to -2 you get to subtract 2 from your roll. However....should someone run to your aid, even if you're only knocked to -1, you have to make the roll anyway to see if it works. You can set the flat line at whatever hp value you want (zero sounds reasonable as well). That way, just because someone comes to your aid, it doesn't mean they can stop the bleeding in 6 seconds - if you keep failing rolls, your hp ebb away (and each roll is harder).

Re: So, what house rules do you use ?

Another idea that came after rereading the Dying Earth rules.

Skill checks
Each day a character can reroll a skill check a number of times equal to his attribute modifier.

Ex : My character has a dex of 16, his modifier is +2. I can reroll 2 times/day a skill roll if the skill is connected to Dexterity (like Stealth or Tinkering).

0 and negative modifiers have no influence, make skill checks as usual.

I'l try this with my group.